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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3060
   |
Posted - 2014.11.17 18:16:11 -
[1] - Quote
The solution to everything is to remove auto repeat from mining equipment. It prevents afk mining, makes bot detection easier and makes the hulk more attractive.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3062
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 18:31:19 -
[2] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:I'm confused. There are plenty of groups, many posting in this thread that are able to drop Freighters, often empty without trouble. Certainly those same groups could tear up some skiffs without trouble.
The difference is scale and pay. Miner ganking was supposed to be small scale ganking, something solo/small groups of people could do, while freighter ganking is large scale; the same comparison works for pay.
The problem that occurred is that ccp somewhere decided they don't value pvp minded players hence the focus on highsec buffs.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3066
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 18:56:36 -
[3] - Quote
Bad at maths is right.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3067
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 19:37:10 -
[4] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:La Nariz wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:I'm confused. There are plenty of groups, many posting in this thread that are able to drop Freighters, often empty without trouble. Certainly those same groups could tear up some skiffs without trouble. The difference is scale and pay. Miner ganking was supposed to be small scale ganking, something solo/small groups of people could do, while freighter ganking is large scale; the same comparison works for pay. The problem that occurred is that ccp somewhere decided they don't value pvp minded players hence the focus on highsec buffs. So I'm not an expert on ganking but it seems like it takes what around 20 catalysts to kill a freighter? So comparing tanks it seems it should take maybe what like 5 to kill a skiff? Sounds small enough scale to me. And seriously how many mining vessels are there to choose from? (seriously, i don't feel like counting), and there is what this one that can actually be tanked well enough to be safer?
The fit is dependent upon the number of people participating, the less participating the more expensive the gank. Min/max this and you get 40 t1 catalysts for a freighter.
Solo/small scale is subjective aside from the solo part. <=3 is in the range.
After the changes all of them can be tanked sufficiently but, the age old problem is no one is ever willing to give up yield to do it.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3068
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 19:51:26 -
[5] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:La Nariz wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:La Nariz wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:I'm confused. There are plenty of groups, many posting in this thread that are able to drop Freighters, often empty without trouble. Certainly those same groups could tear up some skiffs without trouble. The difference is scale and pay. Miner ganking was supposed to be small scale ganking, something solo/small groups of people could do, while freighter ganking is large scale; the same comparison works for pay. The problem that occurred is that ccp somewhere decided they don't value pvp minded players hence the focus on highsec buffs. So I'm not an expert on ganking but it seems like it takes what around 20 catalysts to kill a freighter? So comparing tanks it seems it should take maybe what like 5 to kill a skiff? Sounds small enough scale to me. And seriously how many mining vessels are there to choose from? (seriously, i don't feel like counting), and there is what this one that can actually be tanked well enough to be safer? The fit is dependent upon the number of people participating, the less participating the more expensive the gank. Min/max this and you get 40 t1 catalysts for a freighter. Solo/small scale is subjective aside from the solo part. <=3 is in the range. After the changes all of them can be tanked sufficiently but, the age old problem is no one is ever willing to give up yield to do it. Well I was just going off KB, which there were plenty of ganks of freighters with 19-22 Catalysts, which seemed largely T2 fit. So based on the damage done, and then looking at the average damage done to a skiff, seems like 5 should do it. So there are plenty of miners that can be easily soloed in a single catalyst. Some that probably need 2-3, and one that might take 5. Seems like there is plenty for the small gank to choose from.
Seems like is quite a stretch to reality.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3068
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 20:27:24 -
[6] - Quote
Jur Tissant wrote:Are you suggesting that you should be able to suicide gank a Skiff with a single destroyer/cruiser? The Skiff should be a tough nut for small ships to crack even in low/null. It should be nigh impossible to beat with anything short of a gank-fit BC/BS in high-sec. That's the whole point - safety at the expense of a respectable price tag and mining yield.
If you want to take down a Skiff, bring a bunch of friends.
If it's untanked yes, the rest of your post shows you don't know much about ganking at all.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3068
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 20:38:53 -
[7] - Quote
The Mack and skiff need their yields cut.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3068
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 20:40:25 -
[8] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:How many Catalysts to kill a Skiff, looking at the Goon gank fit, 559 DPS.
A well tanked Skiff has 95k EHP and has a sustained tank of around 166 DPS, but taking that into account in a 0.5 system that is 19 seconds until Concord arrives and perhaps another 5 seconds of ability to fire so 24 seconds, so each Catalyst does 13,416 DPS before blowing up in perfect conditions so say 12,500 average based on less perfect hits, the skiff orbiting, so 7 to 8 Catalysts are needed to kill a well tanked Skiff.
Seriously that is easy enough for you well organised gankers isn't it? Stop whining, its sad...
Like all things in eve it's okay for us rotund folks but the "little guy" gets screwed and your numbers are wrong.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3069
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 20:49:12 -
[9] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:La Nariz wrote:Dracvlad wrote:How many Catalysts to kill a Skiff, looking at the Goon gank fit, 559 DPS.
A well tanked Skiff has 95k EHP and has a sustained tank of around 166 DPS, but taking that into account in a 0.5 system that is 19 seconds until Concord arrives and perhaps another 5 seconds of ability to fire so 24 seconds, so each Catalyst does 13,416 DPS before blowing up in perfect conditions so say 12,500 average based on less perfect hits, the skiff orbiting, so 7 to 8 Catalysts are needed to kill a well tanked Skiff.
Seriously that is easy enough for you well organised gankers isn't it? Stop whining, its sad...
Like all things in eve it's okay for us rotund folks but the "little guy" gets screwed and your numbers are wrong. The little guy is the solo miner, not the majority of gankers. So where exactly are my numbers incorrect?
They are incorrect everywhere. The little guy is also the solo ganker, small RL friend only pirate corporation and the fresh newbie "I saw this game and it said I can be he bad guy" corporation. Are you suggesting that one group of players is more important than another group?
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3069
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 20:50:06 -
[10] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Meilandra Vanderganken wrote:Jur Tissant wrote:Are you suggesting that you should be able to suicide gank a Skiff with a single destroyer/cruiser? The Skiff should be a tough nut for small ships to crack even in low/null. It should be nigh impossible to beat with anything short of a gank-fit BC/BS in high-sec. That's the whole point - safety at the expense of a respectable price tag and mining yield.
If you want to take down a Skiff, bring a bunch of friends. You would need several battlships to gank a well tanked skiff actually. But the problem many have with the SKiff, including me, is not it's tank, but the fact that it is on par with the mack yield wise. And on top of that it get's drone damage bonus, speed and a smal sig radius. From a miners standpoint, it's not a good ship, it's the best ff+¡ng mining vessel ever in EVE, by far. It's simply not balanced in any way. Slash it's yield I say, they can have their awesome tank as long as it has an awesome drawback too, and that should be the yield imho. It has to be low enough to entice ppl to go for a (tanked) mackinaw or even a hulk. Now see that's an argument that makes sense. The whole point IIRC in the mining ship rebalance was to give each ship a purpose, so there was no single "I Win" miner (aka previously the Hulk). If all they did was change the I WIN miner to something else then everything they did was a waste of time.
Which is what they did the mackinaw is the dominant mining vessel.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3071
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 22:31:36 -
[11] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:La Nariz wrote:Dracvlad wrote:La Nariz wrote:Dracvlad wrote:How many Catalysts to kill a Skiff, looking at the Goon gank fit, 559 DPS.
A well tanked Skiff has 95k EHP and has a sustained tank of around 166 DPS, but taking that into account in a 0.5 system that is 19 seconds until Concord arrives and perhaps another 5 seconds of ability to fire so 24 seconds, so each Catalyst does 13,416 DPS before blowing up in perfect conditions so say 12,500 average based on less perfect hits, the skiff orbiting, so 7 to 8 Catalysts are needed to kill a well tanked Skiff.
Seriously that is easy enough for you well organised gankers isn't it? Stop whining, its sad...
Like all things in eve it's okay for us rotund folks but the "little guy" gets screwed and your numbers are wrong. The little guy is the solo miner, not the majority of gankers. So where exactly are my numbers incorrect? They are incorrect everywhere. The little guy is also the solo ganker, small RL friend only pirate corporation and the fresh newbie "I saw this game and it said I can be he bad guy" corporation. Are you suggesting that one group of players is more important than another group? If you want to be a bad guy solo ganker then gank a Venture or a Covertor, or a Hulk, that's easy enough, are you saying that one group of players is more important than another group???
Anything untanked should die to a gank.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3071
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 22:38:04 -
[12] - Quote
Another good change would be removing all ecm from concord.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3071
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 22:39:29 -
[13] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Indeed it is, if such people are inclined to lose their freaking minds over a loss in a videogame. But since you're making that claim, I would like to see you back it up. Well this is what I said which caused you to reply like that: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5215333#post5215333
Cause and effect... As you know CCP does not give out these stats, however you sometimes find this out in odd ways, I joined an organisation in Star Citizen due to a friend, it was a group of random people that a friend met on the forums and they formed a industry and trade focused organisation. So when I was on there I said I was playing Eve, and 16 out of the 20 people on comms told me that they had played Eve and left because their mining ships were ganked and they were too weak and so on, some of the comments would of course please you greatly, but not CCP. It is of course a small sample and totally random, and they are not Eve players in your view anyway, but it was rather striking to me, so I asked when they left, and all of them left before the mining ships were buffed. As I said its a small sample and totally random, but it was striking enough for me to draw that conclusion. However you can easily discount it and probably will. However CCP did buff mining ships massively, so I assume that they worked it out, a bit late but they did. In a sense this game needs a level of prey to keep healthy, for example we are seeing the prey concept occurring in Catch at this very moment with PL farming Brave, in hisec war dec corps struggle to find easy targets and now we see more and more people getting the message and are using Skiffs, is that a bad thing? Anyway its late and I have wife aggro, so will check in tomorrow on how you respond to this, my guess is to poo poo it as its not based on stats, but you know I don't have that data and never will.
Anecdotes aren't evidence.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3072
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 13:53:07 -
[14] - Quote
Remove auto repeat from mining equipment, remove ewar from concord and increase concord response times for each sec by 10s. All problems solved.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3073
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 16:09:51 -
[15] - Quote
Thanatos Marathon wrote:La Nariz wrote:Remove auto repeat from mining equipment, remove ewar from concord and increase concord response times for each sec by 10s. All problems solved. Remove auto-repeat from all the things! No more repeating guns/missile launchers, no more repeating hardeners. Man Mode everywhere!
Does that mean the person that can click the most buttons has more "skill?" Also ahahahahahahahaha at the rest of the highsec hypocrites pouring into the thread.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3073
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 16:31:32 -
[16] - Quote
Mack needs a tank nerf and skiff needs a yield nerf.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3073
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 17:45:32 -
[17] - Quote
Jurico Elemenohpe wrote:La Nariz wrote:Mack needs a tank nerf and skiff needs a yield nerf. Mack needs a tank nerf..? It's currently only a bit better than the hulk (not even 1.5* better, whereas the Skiff is over 4* better) Hulk - ~22k Mack - ~27k Skiff - ~110k
Cut the right most digit off of those numbers for completely untanked stats and it's all good.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3073
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 18:15:34 -
[18] - Quote
Jurico Elemenohpe wrote:La Nariz wrote:Jurico Elemenohpe wrote:La Nariz wrote:Mack needs a tank nerf and skiff needs a yield nerf. Mack needs a tank nerf..? It's currently only a bit better than the hulk (not even 1.5* better, whereas the Skiff is over 4* better) Hulk - ~22k Mack - ~27k Skiff - ~110k Cut the right most digit off of those numbers for completely untanked stats and it's all good. No mods, perfect skills it's 11/14/35. No skills or mods it's 7.7/10/23
Still do that, the ehp is too high.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3073
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 20:38:05 -
[19] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:La Nariz wrote:Mack needs a tank nerf and skiff needs a yield nerf. If the Skiff needs anything, it needs a capacity nerf not a yield nerf. Having the same yield as a Mack is fine, but being able to go twice as long without offloading as a Hulk seems a bit out of place.
Good point both of those need a nerf.
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3093
|
Posted - 2014.11.24 19:38:54 -
[20] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:All high-sec ships are being balanced towards solo player vs CODE/CFC. If you're a lone pirate trying to make your mark, good luck to you.
Exactly all these highsec buffs hurt the newbies because they remove one entire profession from them. The mining barge ehp buff hurt the newbies.
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